Personally I always though that you need to gather enough voting power to send a proposal up for voting. At least this is what it was communicated.
I am sorry to say that, but ‘‘avoid votes for highly controversial things’’ it reminds me the common saying: we are doing everything for your safety. This is censored system. I remember team was rushing in other SIP to send them up for voting despite conflict on the replies. But I guess because it was part of their interest to pass it, that wasnt a big issue. Do check previous SIP - and no I am not talking about the one with bugs fixing.
What is bitocracy? How you put something on vote? Why we gather voting power?
Even gathering the appropriate amount of voting power is not enough to start a vote as it needs ‘‘an approval’’, someone to give the ok. And even if magically you put something on vote, good luck fighting against the big founder/adoption/development stacks of Voting power.
There is only one word: disappointment. But maybe some people like it. Maybe this is the bitocracy they stake their tokens for. Well done.
The team are already vested and we want them focussed on developing the project. Sovryn has a great core team and whilst there has in all honesty been a few questionable decisions and some poor communication, let’s not reduce or remove the incentives of the people who we all need to deliver the vision.
Emissions from Development and Adoption.
I don’t disagree that too many SOV are being issued for the level of user growth / demand at the moment.
Noting Yagos point on the contact being fixed, could we not agree a SIP that a percentage of of the SOV released on a monthly basis are locked again in another contract say 50% for 3 years? Similar to what Ripple are doing (never thought I would use them as an example).
Whilst this may not be trustless it would be SIP mandated and could be changed in the future with another SIP should it be required.
Staking / SOV rewards.
I disagree with changing the current model of staking / penalties and believe the current model of basing it on a time weight is a good one. But the rewards could be more generous to encourage staking giving even short stakers a better return.
If a SOV holder wants to earn a return they can stake or add to one of the pools, I dont think we should be giving non active holders a benefit.
UX
I remember a discussion a while ago that anyone can create a site and use Sovryns back end. I even recall that someone was building one.
Rather than change what’s there now, why not develop a view for Trading and maybe a mobile friendly simple view. This could even be outsourced so that the core team is not distracted.
@DMAN , you have published part of a conversation that you initiated in private with me, and did so without asking me.
In the interest of transparency, I do not think this should be managed in private conversations. I also do not think parts of conversations should be published without full context.
Given that part of the conversation has already been published, my preference is that the conversation in full be published.
Such politician! Such manipulator. Sure, I won’t talk with you anymore regarding this in private.
Did you really just say this?
You win. You can win the vote because you have the power, but you can’t win the hearts, because you don’t have a soul. Sould for TRULY listening to people not to rephrase and do what you want with them later on from the position of being some OG.
Alright, I see no point in continuing this conversation, because if I want Sovryn to succeed I must trust in you as a leader, and if I can’t affect this positive change… at least I won’t do things to harm Sovryn by discrediting you further. Although the saying goes: you can fool some people all the time, you can fool all the people for some time… but YOU CAN’T FOOL ALL THE PEOPLE ALL THE TIME. In other words, people find out eventually… it takes them a while, but they figure it out. Shame on such politicising of people who gave you trust.
I thought the idea with bitocracy was to give power to the people.
I am not for or against this SIP proposal.
But for me it seems obvious that bitocracy does not work the way it should if a few have the majority of voting power.
As mentioned earlier … a real impossible D rama queen you are!
This seems like a pretty constructive response to me, because your proposal isn’t very clear at all. You can make sure your points are properly reflected in the following drafts or update yours. But I think in your current state of mind there’s no real constructive cooperation possible. So better give it some rest and work out the details with a clear head.
what is controversial about the SIP? the disagreement?
there will always be different opinions, no matter how watered down.
I would really like to see D’s SIP put up for a vote.
first, it would bring much needed clarity on where the community stands
and more important, move SOV forward.
I think it is clear, despite ongoing attacks on my character that I have tried to continue to be helpful and help craft a SIP that can and should pass.
It should also be clear that Bitocracy is not a tool for politics but a path towards implementing consensus.
There is also a process for introducing SIPs that can be found here:
Except in situations where there is a potential exploit, this process should be followed. SIPs that do not follow this process should be rejected by default, regardless of their merits.
Finally, I don’t understand why this has become a hostile crusade. We all want Sovryn to succeed and I personally have spent a lot of time trying to understand D’s views, talk to him and BCW and try to identify the best elements of what they are proposing.
We talk, we debate and find the best path forward. Good decisions take time. THIS IS THE WAY.
The alternative is panic.
@yago Go back to building and pushing Sovryn into Beta. You don’t have to try to win over everybody, especially not those who clearly short-term oriented.
Free market will determine the true value of SOV.
@DMAN find your coders, gather the voting power, publish your SIP in your terms.
you started politically nicely say “oh we should debate” but in reality you are A) delaying the vote because you want to twist things B) banning people here because you don’t like their arguments C) not really agreeing to changing anything that YOU want to change.
since people became clearly aware you started manipulating the community.
And YES, I proposed the best fucking SIP that can ever come to Sovryn when it matters to reversing the downward spiral regarding Sovryn… and NO, no matter how many votes, you see how many people here support it, you see how many people in Sovryn DOJO which is not place that favorites me… support it… and yet you’ll find a way to make it not pass.
You already proposed rewording it “in a way it’s more acceptable”.
No, I don’t need it to be more acceptable. I need it to be efficient so efficient that it produces RESULTS we need in Sovryn.
Would you rather have endless debates or you’d like to see RESULTS.
I am the results man, and as you see over 70% of people are TOO.
30% are your folks, go on a beer and twist them into where King Yago wishes them to be at.
I did this for transparency purposes, to show what you do, because at the end, we know Saddam Hussein won’t remove himself from the throne… nor will Hitler… and you, in Sovryn have all the power. As you see, you claimed until now ANYONE can put it to a vote with enough power, now you see it’s not the case, because you now finally found one who has enough power… but now it requires coding, and those commands I can’t find anywhere public nor did you tell me where can I read about it, you just delegated for one day to “talk” to the team who will do it for me who knows when, if you don’t manage to twist things by then.
Only naive can suck this story Yago. And I don’t say there are not naive people in here, but the majority… as you see a strong majority supports this SIP and my saying.
And regardless what ends up as a vote later on… people have changed the way they see you now because of how you treated this entire thing. People have changed their opinion. Honesty baby!
This seems a make or break SIP for Sovryn. Hence, this needs time and care, not cortisol- and adrenaline-filled posting ping-pong. Individual Sovrynity starts with the inner adult being in charge of the inner child!
Hence, I propose a structured process for this SIP, and split this into three sub-SIPs. Structured = a few days time for reading the details, then round of clarifying questions only, then round of concerns, then possibility of adapting the SIPs, then 3x vote. I recommend here for the proposers or a facilitator to bring in the wisdom of tried-and-tested processes such as Sociocracy 3.0
Maybe a live voice AMA between D Man and Yago and team could help alleviate fears of wider community to be rug pulled by BCW…we could all submit our questions and upvote them prior to the chat, and then everyone can assess for themselves if both sides operate in good faith
@Yago: I know that you know that you are facing the classic founder’s trade-off between larger share of smaller (maybe zero) pie, or smaller share of larger (possible epic) share. The question is: do you believe the many voices of the DAO you and your team summoned? We all want the same, that’s the beauty of a (functioning) DAO, all roles are ultimately mission-aligned. Personally, I will loose my interest in Sovryn if we fall into similar “Decentralisation Theater as many a ERC-20 DeFi project!
Speaking of DeFi on ETH…most DeFi token holders have lost horrifically against ETH since DeFi summer of 2020 - if we want to be different, we must avoid this narrative. Hence, the price of SOV must over any timeframe, short, mid- and long-term gain against BTC. Why otherwise bother???
Imho this is and must not be not about short-term pump as @hyperborean makes clear, this is about survival and as @SOV Hooligan said, time is running out fast for Sov. Do we really want to give those other DeFi on BTC bros the leading narrative? Look at Bitcoin Miami who has advertised stage time and who hasn’t…
Trudeau and Ukraine are game changers specifically for Bitcoin adoption, I expect a lot of Bitcoiners and Crypto adopters who currently only use CeX to flock to Dex and self-custody. Right now, the rewards tab is way too complicated for newbies to find their way around as @draxe says and I agree
I strongly advocate for the SIP to be partitioned, so that each can be put to a vote on their own needed timelines, and as @VT333 says the details don’t have to be implemented as they currently are, in fact I expect the Bitocracy process to make them stronger by amendments. Given the urgency, whatever we vote on needs to be “good enough to try, safe enough for now” (agile) and agile does need to equal reckless btw!
I respect your well-thought, disciplined, and diplomatic (much more than me) words.
The SIP can’t be partitioned because the sip and what I propose is not one thing, but the shortest series of things, sequence of things I could come up with that would make the REAL impact.
I know Yago is quick to support UX UI change.
I know he would find the middle ground with staking too…
But also I know from watching many investors perform their research, maybe many of us here too… we after seeing a project, go check project’s tokenomics. I must INSIST on all the changes taking care as a package, because then I would find this is a truly attractive project to put full 250,000+ BCW promotional efforts into play to spread the word about it. 2/3 doesn’t cut it. Like you have 3 kids, which one you’ll forget to feed today? Given you have a chance to save and feed all three of them.
Tries every single manipulative trick he can find. Yago not a good trait to think of people as idiots for whom you need just a couple more days to twist them around… and get them to turn against D Man. It won’t happen. You can win the vote by your too big vote power, but nothing else. The number of wallets will show what people truly want. You will see the people strongly support this SIP. Cheers!
When there is a decision that activated more than 50% of the community, and you as a leader come and say it is too long for you and that you are “over and out” it tells what crappy egoistical leader you are.
Yes, it will be what you decide it to be… but people remember. People eventually punish. You are done with this thread. Cocky. Good. Basically you piss on not me, fuck me, you piss on a MAJOR (50+%) of your community here saying in other words “I don’t give a fuck what you guys thing, I’ll have it my way”.
And I have proven in the AMA, and here with the screenshots, your multiple attempts to manipulate the community and the people.
I can say over and out. I am not a leader. I am just a guy who wishes well for Sovryn. But you… the cocky leader to say over and out on thread that is of such critical importance of Sovryn, I don’t know if any got such engagement and interest… SHAME ON YOU Yago!
Would it be possible to change the tone of this SIP a bit?
I agree with the first point in the SIP where coins are locked up longer in favor of price apreciation. But this would only happen if this event is marketed properly. I assume the goal is to attract new buyers as I do not have the feelings this project is a rugpull from the core team.
Same thing for point two. I think staking mechanism is fine as it is, however it is not very well known what the actual benefits are. (Liquid rewards, fee share etc). Imho this should changed. E.g. Shout out on the frontpage, Twitter, Google ads etc. Would it make sense to add a staking option with less benefits and voting power and no time contraint? Instead of replacing it?
Point 3 I agree but As I understood from the AMA this is already agreed upon and begint worked on. If there is an actual plan / design this could be put to a vote if desired but my preference would be to leave this up to a specialist.
Cheers,
Just a sov holder that likes to see some ROI
You already hated in previous replies I believe, but I’ll answer you regardless.
As I pointed out: governance power can work in a similar manner because there will be with every day that passed in staking the loyalty points (voting power and extra staking rewards shared).
It already works on one other currently booming project so it’s not just a theoretical concept. Just it gives SOV to the people who truly want it. No lockings. No nothing.
And I am in perfect position to suggest this because I am one of very few ogs who never staked anything (and yet I hold for years) because I don’t ever lock-stake things. I prefer freedom with my tokens. So when I suggest it it is not that I have some tokens I’d like unstaked, but I suggest this because this will bring higher quality and higher satisfaction of holders if they are holding something because it is earning them, because they want to hold it staked, not because they changed their mind, they wait for their rewards and their unlock to come dump and never come back.
Basically, I preach in this sip for three things: freedom of choice, value of the token and clarity understandable even by the newcomers.
