The evolution sale price should be between 20k-30k sats.
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15-20k sats for evolution sale seems a good number. However i think the main point is to distribute SOV to the community more and avoid having whales, i disagree with a first come first served basis direct swap format unless it will have a hard cap in order for more people to get in on sovryn. Having a low price increase and a hard cap ensures that there will still be demand once trading starts.
Also we should price in terms of btc and not usd, this is the whole point of sovryn.
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The comparisons made in your document are not based on the seed, private, pre or even public sale prices of those projects, you chose to compare them to a well-established market price lol.
So letâs compare it as follows:
Uniswap â Public listing $2,40. Max supply 1B. Fully diluted valuation of 2.4B. Current ROI in USD 10x
Aave â Public sale price $1.75. Max supply 16M. Fully diluted valuation of 28M. Current ROI in USD 252x
Thorchain â Public sale price $0.032. Max supply 500M. Fully diluted valuation of 16M. Current ROI in USD 152x
Perpetual Protocol - Public sale price $1.30. Max supply 150M. Fully diluted valuation of 195M. Current ROI in USD 5.6x
Injective Protocol - Public sale price $0.40. Max supply 100M. Fully diluted valuation of 40M. Current ROI in USD 37x
The above are public sale prices. We are not even mentioning seed and presale, which are significantly lower. Now letâs look at Sovryn:
Sovryn â Genesis price 2500sats by a 56k BTC price equals $1.40. Max supply 100M. Fully diluted valuation 140M.
Sovryn â Origin price 10.000sats by a 56K BTC price equals $5.60. Max supply 100M. Fully diluted valuation 560M.
Sovryn â Evolution price 15.000sats by a 56k BTC price equals $8.40. Max supply 100M. Fully diluted valuation 840M.
Conclusion: Genesis is priced fair compared to Uniswap and Perpetual Protocol, but highly overpriced against Aave, Thorchain and Injective Protocol . Origin and Evolution prices are just a bad joke - will not even elaborate on it.
Iâm afraid that with such high valuations, this project is doomed to fail. The team benefits the most of this procedure. You are becoming sovereign â participants are just the means of that. I really believed in the project, until I saw this discussion and comparisons. I doubt whether your intentions are pure. You guys had no shame in raising the genesis price 400% for Origin participants, and are now aiming for a 25% - 50% raise for Evolution? That makes 0 logical sense. Redeeming my precious Bitcoin is closer than ever.
One final note to save this project, I suggest SIP10: Reconsider all prices.
Fair valuation. Fair distribution. Everybody becomes sovereign.
7 Likes
Is the market opportunity for Sovrynâs BTC-based DeFi less, the same, or greater than ETH-based DeFi if it were to find a schelling point for BTC? If less or greater, how have you factored for that variance in your review?
I think this sounds fair. a 4x is definitely not required. But a 25% increase is just unfair to those who had to go the RSK route vs. an ETH sale which is in everyones comfort zone.
50-80% would be a nice compromise. 15k - 18k sats. And @yago âŚjust a point on it being overvalued, I think we can all agree after witnessing every reputable project launch over the last 6 months that the chance of price crashing is far far less than an increase.
1 Like
Iâve posted the same thing in the other thread - will put it here too.
Hey. The problem is the Origin sale price - it was too high vs Genesis and is now pushing the price even higher for the public sale.
I agree with everyone here:
- a price too low on the public sale will upset the Origin supporters
- a price too high will generate a huge MC vs other projects in this space. And I while I feel this project has a massive potential, a big starting MC will prevent us from having mass adoption.
And this is waht we want, right? Lots of believers, from day 1.
So, having said that, I think the perfect solution here is to reassess the Origin price. It is now at 4x vs Genesis - take it down! This will allow us to have a fair price for early supporters and enough room to set the right price strategy for Evolution.
Is this still possible? Rediscuss the Origin price?
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I donât think this is possible. SIP 006 is likely to get passed
âTake the price down guysâ You are missing the point that is the fundamental mechanisms of Origin pricing.
There was 2,000,000 Sov up for tender. Deposits were capped at a 0.1btc limit per whitelisted user, allowing a minimum of 2,000 participants (200/0.1) - there would be space for more participants if people deposited less.
If the full deposit limit (200btc) hadnât been reached within the deposit time window, that would have triggered a dutch auction. You can read about that here: Dutch auction - Wikipedia
Here is an abstract: âA Dutch auction initially offers an item at a price in excess of the amount the seller expects to receive. The price lowers in steps until a bidder accepts the current price. That bidder wins the auction and pays that price for the item.â
For instance, as a parallel to Sovryn, imagine someone is selling⌠corn. Yes, corn, at a dutch auction. It would look like this:
âI am selling 100kgs of Corn. The lowest I will sell it for is $30. The starting price is $100 per kilo.
Who wants to buy corn at $100?â
One buyer offers to buy 15kg of corn @ $100. He doesnât pay yet; there is still 85kg unsold.
âOkay, who offers $90 per kilo?â
No-one offers.
â$80 then?â
An amount of buyers put bids to buy corn for $80 a kilo. In total, they put offers on 35kg of corn. There is 50kg left unsold.
No-one has any offers @ $70.
At $60, 30kg is sold, leaving 20kg up for tender.
at $50, a buyer puts an offer for the last 20kg.
Now there is no corn left to auction, because every kg of corn has a buyer.
In the end, EVERY BUYER PAYS $50 FOR THEIR CORN.
That is the whole point of a dutch auction!
In the case of Sovryn, here is what happened:
Before the auction started there was already so much buying money present that the maximum price was the only price that could ensure that every bidder got what they wanted.
200btc deposit limit, 2 million Sov for sale.
2 million sov distributed by 200btc = 10,000sats per token.
So BUYERS made the price.
If there wasnât a 200btc deposit cap, the price could have climbed how high it liked. They put 10k sats because they didnt expect it to hit, but again they were surprised at the demand.
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I completely reject this idea, the price of Origin was not too high.
THE PRICE OF ORIGIN WAS CLEARLY TOO LOW.
It was kept artificially low, by limiting how many people could participate, how much they could deposit and setting a max price that could not allow it to rise to its market price.
The price of Genesis is completely irrelevant to this discussion. It has a long vesting period - and more importantly, the price people paid in the PAST is not what matters. The only thing that mattersis what the price will be in the future.
I think everyone knows this - but they are cheeky - they just want cheaper SOV for themselves. 
I mean⌠obviously.
5 Likes
I agree.
To catch mass adoption and attention, the fully dilluted mc efter the sales should not be higher than 200M.
That makes an average price of about 3800 sats from all the sales.
I think this should have drawn much more attention to the project.
I think following numbers should have beeen fair:
Genesis 1,8M at 2500 sats
Origin 2M at 4000 sats
Evolution 500K at 5000 sats
Makes an average of 3833 sats
Sorry but I have to disagree with all of your points:
- Genesis doesnât have a long vesting period - 10 months is nothing in the long term. Further more you get 10% each of those months so if you entered with 0.1 btc in both Genesis and Origin, after just 3 months youâll have more SOVs from Genesis than Origin (and youâll still have 7 vestings left!)
- Of course the price paid in the past pre-sales matter - if the public price is the same or similar to it youâll piss of the early supporters that are very important to the success of the project in short term (6-12 months)
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I assume you are one of those early supporters. Why will you be pissed off? Letâs say Evolution is âonlyâ 10% higher than Origin. What exactly will you be pissed off about? That you âonlyâ got a 10% discount on an already discounted price?
Help me understand.
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I think we all know on some level that the origin sale should have been a traditional Dutch Auction or even not happened at all and we might not have been in this situation. However, this has already happened and we should move past it and find a solution. These are the facts below that I think should be considered
. We currently have an inflated dialuted market-cap at 10k sats and as new project will be a hurdle for new investors.
.Two barriers of entry to the project exist, the current speed of RSK and acquisition of R-BTC. Absorbing the selling pressure from those initially will be tough at even the current valuation of 10k sats, Sov is past Proof of Concept phase and will be judged as such.
One solution is to discussed amount with the team to perform an airdrop to the origin holders via a SIP, effectively lowering the price of entry for Origin holders. Itâs almost a soft reboot of the Origin sale which would grant even more possibilities of a lower entry for new participants on Evolution sale.
Airdropped SOV could be dropped monthly until the predetermined amount is fulfilled, the possibilities are endless. @yago
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@Zimperial I donât know what situation you think we are in. You say we should have had a Dutch auction - but if we has had an auction without a cap- the price would be much higher. So are you saying we should have had a higher price?
You say we should maybe not have had Origin at all? Why? What would that accomplish?
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Iâve participated in a few token sale auctions where the max cap was defined and the price actually went down the longer the Dutch auction continued. This is actually what I personally thought was happening before the predeposit phase.
The situation I think we are in currently is simply the price of the project is less appealing to new investors for evolution because of the 10k sat clearing price to Origin investors.
Had origin been lower or non existent the EVO sale would probably succeed with even the origin sale price of 3k- 10k terms.
I would propose total scrapping of the evolution sale. Thereâs alot of demand, and when i see origin presalers, with no lockup, demand sats price 4x their own, a dollar amount equal to 23$ per sov on a public saleâŚ
I would be worried about the project.
10k sats would be OK as a public sale price. There is no need to demand yet another sale.
I see this origin sale as the public sale. The demand is extremely high. Momentum is there but it would tarnish the project and its fate with prices per token ranging from 8-23$.
There is no need to make unnecessary quarrels. I cannot find any healthy conclusions to this anymore.
Drop the public sale. Saves time, gets token out in market. Bullrun momentum doesnât last forever either so consider that factor.
The only losers here are those who missed origin sale. But there will be people who will miss evolution sale also
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I personally wouldnâ be happy with such approach because it defeats the whole purpose of pre-public investment - why take the risk of investing in something that is not 100% ready and tested in the real world (e.g. a huge security issue is found tomorrow and the whole release is delayed with a year, unforseen technical issues prevent the wide adoption after release etc.) if you can wait a little bit, see how it really goes once released and buy with just 10-20% increase? I think this is just basic economics and it applies to ICOs, IPOs, kickstarters etc.
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I think this is not a bad idea - put an initial price of something like 15k and let the market decide.
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Yes. Listing price at 15k on exchanges. Bullrun doesnât last forever. I believe people have forgotten that amidst all the price per token talk for the evolution sale.
I wholeheartedly support Dr. Bitcoin. Letâs get on the market and let the market decide their price. Two rounds and 1.5 months of presaling gave the early adopters the opportunity. Let the reins go on this baby.
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