SOV staking rewards - discussion prepping for a SIP

The way the staking rewards are not how they ought to be in my opinion. Therefore I launch this discussion. Some disclaimers before we proceed:

  1. Sovryn encourages longterm planning and commitment. Our token mechanics should incentivize low time-preference, not the crazy yields of degenerate fruit-tokens.
  2. It is my personal understanding that developers are already planning to rework the staking rewards. Our devs work hard and are very busy; in my opinion we ought to meet them with respectful patience until this is addressed. Until then, we can discuss.

My view is simple.
1 The security of the protocol comes from staking. Why should stakers secure a trade or swap they dont earn a share from?
2 The basic value proposition of the SOV token is the revenue you earn from staking it.

It makes absolutely no sense that stakers only earn from some pairs. I dont see the logic. I propose drafting a SIP which states: all present and future pairs on Sovryn platform will have a fee cut for the stakers.

I think this has the most logic and creates the optimal value proposition for the SOV token. To clarify, the rewards needn’t be huge, as staking is low risk, low time preference endeavor, but there ought to be rewards on all pairs.

Regarding Sov/btc pool, I propose a 0.035% cut to the stakers, taken from the LPs.
So LPs will get 0.265% instead of 0.3% fee per trade. This seems like the smallest number to create the least pain for LPs, and still mean something for the stakers. The number is up for discussion.
Perhaps 0.27% for LPs and 0.03% ( 1/10th ) is actually better.

I dont think it is wise to increase the total fee, since that makes the platform less attractive for user. I say the stakers and LPs will have to come to an agreement.

I propose that from the adoption fund some airdrop goes to early stakers that staked before any changes would be implemented. This will compensate for the fees they didn’t earn on. Those who staked for multiple years ought to get a bump up in recognition of their chivalrous gesture towards the platform.

Those are my thoughts towards a healthier platform. Let me know what you think and we can try to prepare a SIP to assist the devs!

Stay Sovryn!

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I staked SOV yesterday… Where can I see my stake earnings on the sovryn app?? How often are these earnings distributed? I would think this info. would be more transparent and easy to find on a democratized system. Am I even earning SOV, BTC or rBTC for my staking?

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I could be wrong, but I believe that SOV stakers already earn fees from the trading of all tokens in the system. They presently are rewarded in each different currency type, but in the future they will be sent back into the system and you’ll receive btc. Also current trading volume is small, as is grows this is only going to increase.

Yes I understand, but currently I cannot see anywhere on the dapp that I have earned anything for my staked tokens. Also, my staked SOV amount has not increased. Am I missing something? Hopefully this is a true Bitocracy.

Lmk if you find out where I can see any of this info.

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AlykzAlex - good thoughts, IMO. I was surprised to learn that stakers aren’t already earning a percentage of the LP fees.

Anyway, even if this becomes an SIP and then passes, I’m not sure it’s worth it TBH. Because 50 Mn tokens are currently staked whereas only 4 Mn are actually circulating. Of that 4 Mn circ probably only a Mn or two at best have been staked (guessing) by users like us. The main number of 50 Mn tokens staked is so large than this suggested change in fee distribution will just be another drop in the bucket.

Probably not a hill worth climbing, so to speak.

Someone should probably start another discussion about how we have 50% of total supply already being staked and earning rewards when we’re just a few months after TGE.

Edited: for clarity only

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Agreeing with Aidonaks here, this really deserves clarification. Crossposting from the other thread:

Staking rewards are all listed and described under Bitocracy. at:

https://live.sovryn.app/stake

Related, and more pertinent questions to me, are:

  • Which not-yet-unlocked tokens have voting rights? (Dev fund, founders, adoption fund, ecosystem fund, etc.)
  • Are these voting rights delegated (and to whom)?
  • Are there not-yet-unlocked tokens receiving staking rewards…? ( because considered staked in Bitocracy )
  • And which of the tokens that unlock from these funds are staked, and hence receive voting rights and staking rewards.

I’m just trying to wrap my mind around the current realities of voting and staking. It’s puzzling to me.

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And I would like to see true transparency, where every SOV holder can see the protocol’s fees as they are collected.

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Regarding Sov/btc pool, I propose a 0.035% cut to the stakers, taken from the LPs.
So LPs will get 0.265% instead of 0.3% fee per trade. This seems like the smallest number to create the least pain for LPs, and still mean something for the stakers. The number is up for discussion. Perhaps 0.27% for LPs and 0.03% ( 1/10th ) is actually better.

@AlykzAlex I’d vote yes on this proposal. Yago expressed similar interest on the call today as well. However, can we get a data export of swaps or LP fees to date? This could help us back-test:

  • The additional revenue this would’ve had on stakers revenue to date and how it projects moving forward
  • If the left-over revenue to LP’s is still sufficient to compensate for risk.

I could be wrong, but I believe that SOV stakers already earn fees from the trading of all tokens in the system. They presently are rewarded in each different currency type, but in the future they will be sent back into the system and you’ll receive btc. Also current trading volume is small, as is grows this is only going to increase.`

@d2Man I believe this is incorrect. Currently only LP’s receive fees on swaps.

Anyway, even if this becomes an SIP and then passes, I’m not sure it’s worth it TBH. Because 50 Mn tokens are currently staked whereas only 4 Mn are actually circulating. Of that 4 Mn circ probably only a Mn or two at best have been staked (guessing) by users like us. The main number of 50 Mn tokens staked is so large than this suggested change in fee distribution will just be another drop in the bucket.

@Aidonaks I believe this is incorrect as well. It’s my understanding that the 50M tokens is mostly locked/vesting founders shares. These shares can contribute in Bitocracy governance, but do not receive a share of revenues nor airdrops, such as $FISH. The proper calculation would be only fully unlocked and staked $SOV

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Edan confirmed unequivocally on Twitter that all staked tokens (vested and unvested, circ and uncirc) receive rewards.

Also, even if he hadn’t, there’s no reason why a subset of staked tokens would not receive rewards while another subset does. At least not yet.

Which goes to my main point that adding 0.035% from LPs is effectively an academic discussion, unless the team decides on a way to give additional rewards only to those who have voluntarily staked their circulating tokens.

I suggest we include that requirement as a key component of any potential SIP, but I’m obviously being self-serving in this suggestion. :smirk: Would be nice to see what everyone else thinks.

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@Aidonaks The 0.035% from Sovbtc swap is basically to define the logic of the platform and the value proposition of the SOV token.

@Dseroy I’m glad you like it. I think we’d need some devs to pull out the numbers though :slight_smile:

I realize that and I’ll vote for such a proposal regardless, but please also factor in that currently 50% of total supply is already staked and receiving rewards, while only 4% of total is circulating. Hence my suggestion that only circulating should be included for additional rewards or subsidies. Unless I misunderstood him, Edan also said something similar in his reply to the thread by Light a couple of weeks ago. Screenshot below.

Although I believe when he said unvested, he meant what one would traditionally call vested and circulating.

Edan confirmed unequivocally on Twitter that all staked tokens (vested and unvested, circ and uncirc) receive rewards.

Can an admin clarify this? I’ve asked on numerous forums, Telegram, Discord and Community Calls and was under the impression that founding members $SOV which has not yet been fully vested does NOT receive a share of fee revenue until those tokens are unlocked.

@Dseroy I’m glad you like it. I think we’d need some devs to pull out the numbers though

Yes, who can assist with helping us source the raw data. I am not a developer by any means but I can do some basic Python/Pandas data analysis work. I just don’t know how to properly source the data. If someone could assist with the basic setup and data sourcing I could likely figure out the rest. This would also be helpful for future community analyses.

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Just wanted to say I understand this all a lot better now and agree with AlykzAlex on a proposal of this sort. Stakers must be incentivized, ESPECIALLY in these early stages. Someone like me, who is willing to throw a couple grand in for the cause and stake it for 3 years because I believe in it, must still be incentivized. And my two grand pales in comparison to the high stakers that Sovryn needs.

And just to be blatantly honest, I think if the details were clearer upon my consideration of Sovryn, I may not have bought in, or at least would not have staked. Transparency and incentives are extremely important to set the tone of a Bitocracy at this point. If I do not feel the practice and the preaching align, I will not buy it.

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I can confirm I also recall several times reading from team members that founding shares that are currently unvested (locked) could vote but are not earning revenue. What is the backstory on this change to the protocol?

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@AlykzAlex I don’t see many points of contention on this one.

What are the next steps to push forward a SIP? Do you want to propose it. How can I help?

I applaud the effort, just wanted to cross-reference the following topic as it’s going into a same direction:

@dseroy
As it was highlighted in the call today, there was never a change on the blockchain, there was only a misinterpretation of what was the actual output from the code.

So in conclusion as the code is wired now, everybody earns.

Would be interesting to discuss a change to this as well, perhaps in another thread.

Dseroy thanks for your support and to others as well, when it comes to writing the SIP I think we need to write it in a proper format, but we can work on the draft together to ease the burden of the core team, and then launch it as a draft where we can discuss the final numbers.

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Good with me, appreciate the clarification. Feel free to DM me if you need any assistance.

I am happy to lend a hand. Shoot me a message and we can get started!

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Looks like the discussion is continuing in Ingalandias new thread :slight_smile:
Let’s chime in over there for a while!