[DRAFT] SIP-00XX: Mintlayer token sale and Sovryn dApp expansion

Excellent suggestion, and I’d echo your appreciation for the initiative and hard work from the Mintlayer team

Congratulations on a compelling proposal, well supported by the videos and other materials.

I would like to better understand the following statement…

“trade intentions are communicated through a distributed hash table that is separated from the blockchain”

Could you perhaps say a bit more about this, or point us at a resource that explains it in more detail; in particular what would be the stewardship / governance / quality assurance of this table if it is off-chain.

(I appreciate that this may be obvious to others and reflects my limited technical knowledge).

Many thanks

Hello! this is the resource you are looking for: 5. Decentralized Exchange (DEX) - Mintlayer
short answer:
“… the node starts syncing the Distributed Hash Table of orders from the peers.
Not all orders that reach the peer are registered on the hash table; instead, each node stores only those orders that are filtered based on their interest and will pass on to the network only what is stored, just like it happens on BitTorrent or other similar peer-to-peer systems. […] It means that there will never be a single equal DHT shared by all nodes, and likely there will not be nodes who know or store the entire book history since the complete set of orders is stored only collectively in many fragmented tables in possession of different node owners…”

Many thanks.

Having read the documentation you pointed to, I understand much better how this might work.

However I am not sufficiently knowledgeable in this area to judge how robust the solution(s) might be.

So, as long as the more knowledgeable people in this community are comfortable with the roles and likely behaviours of Observers and/or Book Aggregators, then that’s good enough for me!

Best wishes to all at Mintlayer

a book aggregator might be the Sovryn platform itself! :wink:

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I second @Dante’s remarks. Otherwise, I’m all in favour.

Fair sale Allocation metric is really good in my oppinion.

I would prefer to see an airdrop distribution based on liquid stakers voting power.

Other than that the sip is superb and I am excited to see Sovryn - Mintlayer colaboration on Origins.

Cheers!
Stay Sovryn!

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The SOVRYN community will soon receive a finalised SIP from Mintlayer. The Mintlayer team will discuss our draft SIP and collect feedback rouughly one hour from now, at 18:30 CET today (Sept 21) on Discord. We would love to hear your opinion and get suggestions for improvements to the SIP, so please come join us: Mintlayer

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On the Mintlayer call it was explained that this SIP (if passed) would effectively mandate the developers to begin developing Sovryn DAPP on Mintlayer in addition to RSK. That could be cool! But it’s the first I am hearing of that and it’s my understanding devs are already extremely swamped. Are the Sovryn devs aware of this commitment? My gut tells me there is some mis-alignment here.

I personally skimmed over these details in the SIP and assumed this was just a token launch, but that does not appear to be the intention.

@Ororo have the Sovryn devs signed off to start developing on MintLayer if this SIP passes?
@AndreasMintlayer is there any communication from the devs or Sovryn core team showing they understand the commitment here?

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Great suggestion, and fair too. I second the proposal too

Great proposal, very well written and documented, I really would like to thank the Mintlayer team for the effort and the opportunity they are bringing to the Sovryn community!

I have a very simple question and I apologize if it might sound silly, about the fair sale access requirements:

When you write SOV should be staked for at least 3 months, are you requiring the users to which of those:

  1. have been actively and consecutively been staking their SOV during the 3 linear months preceding the token sale
  2. have accumulated 3 months in SOV staking in the past
  3. have an active stake at time of the token sale that has an expire date set at least 3 months past the token sale
  4. have an active stake at time of the token sale that has a delta between expire date and starting date of more than 3 months

While reading I assumed option 4 is the one, but I might be biased as I am not currently staking and I hope of course to be able to participate the fair sale!

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Well spotted.
I maybe also read over that, and was a bit surprised on the call.

The only features of Sovryn that absolutely needs to be ready by mainnet launch are the features of the Origins Launchpad that are essential for the public sale and distribution of mainnet tokens to participants of both sales; the SIP doesn’t mandate a specific timeline for any other feature, and I think there will be a lot of flexibility for those, to fit around the Sovryn dev teams’ current technical roadmap.

Mintlayer’s devs will also be happy to assist in any feasible way.

This part of the SIP is currently being reviewed to consider voting power instead, so please keep an eye out for our upcoming update.

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I see… I thought the voting power was only being considered for the airdrops. thanks for the clarification and I’ll be waiting for future updated, Mintlayer is a wonderful project with one of the most solid technical proposition, in particular on how to roll out a proper Bitcoin blockchain anchoring taking in account reorganizations, most projects oversee this and not many see the implications - kudos to Alberto De Luigi for the patient and exhaustive technical explanations both in the call and here.

Keep up the good work!

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Andreas – This feels like potentially awkward territory. If you all are truly depending on Sovryn devs to build this stuff on MintLayer, then I think the SIP is perhaps a little flismy or tough to enforce. These details were very easy to skim over until you mentioned them on the call. There also is no indication as far as I can tell that the devs nor the core Sovryn team (whose resources would be needed) actually understand what is happening here.

So, what happens if there is a ‘default’ and the commitment cannot be fulfilled?

I really think we should see some unofficial confirmation from the core Sovryn. The reality is the Bitocracy can only mandate or compel the contributors to do so much. Perhaps this communication has already taken place? I apologize for making this a big deal if it has but building on MintLayer hasn’t been on any of the Sovryn road-map calls I’ve been on and I just don’t want either side to be blind sided with mis-aligned expectations.

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Your remarks are totally fair. Here are some initial thoughts/reactions:

Andreas – This feels like potentially awkward territory. If you all are truly depending on Sovryn devs to build this stuff on MintLayer, then I think the SIP is perhaps a little flismy or tough to enforce…
…So, what happens if there is a ‘default’ and the commitment cannot be fulfilled?..
…The reality is the Bitocracy can only mandate or compel the contributors to do so much. Perhaps this communication has already taken place?

We did have a call with @yago and @Ingalandia a few days ago. Full disclosure: They shared these very same concerns, as well.

As we (at Mintlayer) see it, there is no other way to have this SIP, as we are pretty adamant on holding the public sale directly on mainnet (raising mainchain BTC only), and participants to the fair sale must have the option of receiving their MLT on the Mintlayer mainnet (despite having made their contribution in rBTC), or they will not be able to participate in the consensus mechanism during their vesting period.

Therefore, these features at the very least should be available on mainnet launch. We are yet to hear from anyone at the Sovryn core team regarding the time or resources that would be required for this to be possible, however, with this post, please consider this a statement of my commitment to not post the final SIP until we have received confirmation from the Sovryn development team that the above is feasible.

Please note, furthermore, that we have mentioned “Q1 2022” as the time for mainnet launch and public sale, but we have not specified a concrete date; assuming this SIP passes, we will adjust our timeframe to the aforementioned development. Again, I also reiterate that the Mintlayer development team will be there to help the Sovryn development team in any realistic way (so long as it doesn’t affect our own technical roadmap significantly) - We currently have 9 amazing devs on our team and a few more set to join soon.

We look forward to speaking to the Sovryn development team to discuss how we can best share our resources and work together.

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OK cool – Good to know you connected with Yago and Ingalandia. If they’re in the know then all good. I just wasn’t sure the communication behind the scenes with the core team. Regardless, glad we were able to clear that up a bit.

Thanks!

Agree with you @TM1. Voting is the best metric.

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one issue i have now is…do we even want to build on a brand new L2 !?

I see that as bigger problem than sale alocation and airdrops. I am curious see the teams perspective on this…
I would see how Origins would be built on Mint also, specially now when there is the potential of them becoming a subprotocol and it will be much easier to coordinate.

Moving the whole protocol on Mintlayer is something I struggle to see happening at this moment when the team is swamped with work.

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