[DRAFT] SIP-00XX: Mintlayer token sale and Sovryn dApp expansion

Hi Andreas,

I have read your posts on Sovryn Dojo and I do agree with some of the things you have said there and also what the community has observed.
I think that in this current form the SIP is covering both the terms of the sales and also leads to a collaboration between Core Sovryn and Mintlayer devs.
It might be better to split this SIP into two discussions. First one that would cover sales , allocation and airdrops and a second that will present the terms of collaboration and I feel that there is need to negotiate the terms a little more in depth because the terms presented in this SIP are a little vague and open to interpretation, and probably it was left as such deliberately just to open the conversation, but i do feel that we need to get to more concrete terms.

Just to expand further on the ideas i layed in my earlier post about the terms of the sales:

I think that having the same vesting terms as the VC’s is good and I am greatfull for that.
Staking requirements i fell are very clear and they make sense to me.
I feel that the Airdop should change slightly so that every voluntary staker(vesing sov to be excluded) is included regardless of stake size and time staked and the amount received by a staker should be proportional to the voting power(size+time).
Because this would mean more stakers than your first proposal i would increase the size of MLT airdropped. Maybe add the amount of MLT left unsold in the fair sale!?!?, though this might create some misaligned incentives!?!?

I do feel there is tremendous value in having Sovryn on both sidechains.

Cheers!

Stay sovryn!

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A few fundamental changes have just been made to the draft SIP. They are as follows;

OLD:

I hereby submit this SIP to hold two Token Sales for the Mintlayer MLT governance token on Sovryn’s Origins platform, and to expand the Sovryn dApp to the Mintlayer blockchain.

The intention of putting forth this SIP for a Bitocracy vote is to obtain permission for Mintlayer’s use of the Origins platform to perform these sales, and to begin the development of the Sovryn dApp on the Mintlayer blockchain, starting with the Origins launchpad (for Q1 2022), and continuing with other DEX features (throughout 2022 and 2023).

NEW:

OLD:

Part 1: Fair Sale

SOV Staking requirements: Users must have SOV staked for at least 3 months. Max allocation size is $50k for 10,000+ SOV staked, $15k for 1,000+ SOV staked, $1.5k for 100+ SOV, $250 for 10+ SOV, and $50 for 1+ SOV.

NEW:

OLD:

Bitocracy: 600,000 MLT to SOV Stakers, with a 12 month vesting period

A week after the public sale, any SOV staker possessing at least 1,000 MLT will be eligible for an airdrop of 1,000 MLT. Funds for this initiative are limited to a maximum of 600,000 MLT, so a maximum of 600 Bitocracy members will receive the airdrop. The 600 winners will be chosen based on a metric that will factor both the amount of SOV staked and MLT held.

NEW:

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If it helps, I used this excel sheet as a voting power calculator.

The SIP draft recently updated by Andreas has been reviewed according to your suggestions.

the changes to the SIP proposal are mainly the following:

  1. fair sale ticket size now depends on voting power rather than SOV staked
  2. the airdrop mechanism has been updated and now the way the amount is calculated includes the voting power

→ So @cryptohijack, Dante, Arrrvinnn, TheGimp and TM1, the forum doesn’t allow me to mention all of you in a single post, but I’d like to thank you all for your suggestions

  1. building the Sovryn dApp on Mintlayer will require an additional SIP that will be published after the Fair sale. In the previous draft version, many people read over that part despite its importance, focusing mainly on the sale. For this reason, even if that goal remains a crucial part of the roadmap, it’s important to give execution to those broader plans in a second step, with a dedicated SIP.

→ thanks to @Sitizen and dseroy for pointing that out

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Sounds like a great project. However, I have a few clarifying questions/comments, as I wasn’t able to attend the call several weeks ago.

  1. I don’t understand why Sovryn development is intertwined in this (or a subsequent) SIP.
    Is Sovryn development key to this project’s success?
    If so, then I wouldn’t split this SIP into two pieces. Either Sovryn team sees the value and commits it to the development roadmap, or not. I may not vote for this initial SIP and token sale, unless I knew the team was all-in.

It’s also confusing to me why Sovryn development is even mentioned in these SIPs. It seems that Mintlayer should commit to their project and go ahead with the sale. Then, if Sovryn sees value and has resources to expand it’s platform to the Mintlayer blockchain, the Sovryn community can propose this path.

If there is significant opportunity, then Sovryn and other third party dapps will build on the Mintlayer blockchain, but I’m not sure why Sovryn should be issued a directive from Mintlayer. I would recommend de-coupling and leaving it up to the free market.

Nothing wrong with a strong partnership and shared vision, but I’m not sure what the value is to Sovryn to go beyond what I outlined and cede some sovereignty.

Sovryn development is not key to Mintlayer’s success, but it would be awesome to have Sovryn onboard.

Sovryn sovereignity always remains in Bitocracy, it’s never ceded to any other entity. Isn’t this vote exactly the expression of the free market?

Why would Sovryn development on Mintlayer require an additional SIP? Because we simply can’t commit hours of effort of a team of developers with a generic directive like “build on Mintlayer”. It wouldn’t be fair and wouldn’t even guarantee a proper development and a result aligned to what the community wants.

Why is the future development of Sovryn mentioned here? Because Mintlayer will launch on Origins only if the Sovryn community is capable of seeing the value in Mintlayer up to the point that they express their future intentions of integrating Mintlayer functionalities into Sovryn.

If they do not, I think that for the sake of the Mintlayer project, the sale may be conducted elsewhere where other partners or communities are able to provide a stronger value to Mintlayer. That would be a pity since it really seems that many members of Sovryn community are so close to Mintlayer ideals.

The Sovryn community could indeed just decide to build on Mintlayer on its own, without getting any special deal like the Fair sale. By holding the fair sale for Bitocracy users, the Sovryn community becomes a partner on equal footing with all the other VCs who participated in Mintlayer’s seed sale, and the Mintlayer community expects an added value by all of them - in fact, for many of these VCs, said value is precisely also building their projects on Mintlayer, or encouraging others to do so.

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Thank you for the response.

This sounds like a great project, I just don’t know all of the future development opportunities the team is evaluating or has on the roadmap. (Not saying it’s not, I just don’t have any idea.)

If Mintlayer integration is one of the highest value opportunities for the development resources, then you have my vote. I just need some help understanding the relative value vs. any other opportunities.

Therefore, given the current proposal, I would like to see some form of feedback on the Mintlayer opportunity from the Sovryn team prior to any vote.

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Apologies if this is explained elsewhere or if this is the wrong forum, but how is Mintlayer different from the dozens of other PoS blockchains? I see that it is “built on Bitcoin” but as far as I can tell, Bitcoin is only used (1) as a source of random numbers (from the block hashes), and (2) as a sort of timekeeping oracle for the PoS slot selection.

It seems like building an all-new Sovryn foundation on a PoS blockchain that is only tangentially related to Bitcoin isn’t inline with the ethos of Sovryn.

Great idea!

A Exiled Surfer AMA would probably clear up a lot of peoples questions. We have a great talk show we could explore the topic with as well!

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Mintlayer is just a POS blockchain like dozens out there? Look:

  • every Mintlayer block is linked to a BTC block: a node won’t accept a block at height X if it doesn’t include the hash of a known Bitcoin block at height Y, where Y is equal or higher than the height of the Bitcoin block referenced in Mintlayer block at height X-1
  • Bitcoin POW is used as a “clock” for time calculation: it defines Mintlayer rounds (with a committee of blocksigners) and enforces a minimum time delay between Mintlayer blocks in case an attacker tries to generate blocks at higher frequency (to fake a “longest” chain)
  • the Bitcoin block hash is used as a source of entropy for the random determination of the blocksigners in the next Mintlayer round
  • the protocol has a “built-in” checkpointing system relying on the Bitcoin blockchain, which means a checkpoint independent from software releases (it’s not “hard coded” by some developers, but a spontaneous outcome of free market forces). Checkpoints are potentially made by any user and are independently validated by fullnodes.
  • any reorganization of the Bitcoin blockchain (including orphaned blocks) affects also the Mintlayer network, while Mintlayer blocks can’t be orphaned (unless Bitcoin chain reorgs) because they are validated in a deterministic way based on the slot order established at the beginning of the round, so that atomic swaps between Bitcoin and Mintlayer are secure
  • To verify Mintlayer blocks and DSA consensus you’ll need to run a Bitcoin fullnode
  • Blocksigner are just MLT stakers elected through a mechanism that looks at the Bitcoin POW and their only power is to decide which transactions to accept and include in the blocks, relying on their subjective considerations (also evaluating the particular token that has been used as gas to pay for fees). For that purpose, it’s necessary that they have a stake in the Mintlayer blockchain. For the rest, they are bound to the constraints explained in the points above of this list and fullnodes maintain complete sovereignty over the protocol just like it happens in Bitcoin (no hard fork can be enforced without the consensus of your fullnode)
  • Mintlayer is a UTXO blockchain using Bitcoin script, so it grants the highest interoperability with Bitcoin including but not limited to:
  • atomic swap, which can be done using directly BTC instead of a wrapped token, enabling decentralized exchanges between the Bitcoin mainchain and all the tokens issued on Mintlayer
  • lightning network, including lightning network swaps if the two parties executing a DEX are connected with a channel both in the mainchain and the Mintlayer sidechain
  • Mintlayer wallet is mainly a Bitcoin wallet (with real BTC, not pegged versions of it) that enables additional features. By the way, you may also issue wrapped versions of BTC on the sidechain (ideally, you may use a peg-in strong federation like Blockstream Liquid does)

If you think Mintlayer is “only tangentially related” to Bitcoin, I can’t wait to hear your breakdown on RSK!

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I found that a very useful summary, thank you.

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Updated the main post to say “counting only voting power from voluntarily staked assets; excluding voting power from vesting assets”

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@AndreasMintlayer I like all these changes. It is definitely an improvement over the old proposal. Well done!

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Andreas,

Thank you for this!
It is very valuable information.

Also this is a gem:

It has cleared a lot of my doubts and it has set clear the intentions of this SIP.

I had similar thoughts as @corey when i first heard of Mintlayer. I am now starting to understand the value that Mintlayer could bring to Sovryn.

I see Sovryn as an Ecosystem that will eventually be available on all the "best " layer 2 solutions on Bitcoin so an integration with Mintlayer feels only natural.

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I have 3 major areas of broad concern.

  1. Tokenomics - lots of attention here already digging into details so I will not belabor this one
  2. SOVRYN Dev impact. The way I am reading the language - we would be approving a significant commitment of SOVRYN resources with this SIP - not just Mintlayer Devs. Given the repeated statements (supported by platform roadmap for sure) that SOVRYN devs are slammed and already moving at light speed - seems like we need to really nail this one down beyond any doubt.
  3. My own limitation here but I it seems like there is duplication of a lot of the value of SOVRYN itself. This may be a great example of what we intend for the project and have already been executing with the Babelfish launch but I get a sense of confusion as why the SOVRYN community would not simply vote to extend the current platform to support such features on its own roadmap rather than potentially create a fractured platform.
    Again - the community may be clear already on all of these points and the post reads well. Hoping we can clear up item 2 at a minimum
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Please check out my interview with @exiledsurfer at the Paralelni Polis Hackers Congress in Prague last Sunday: Mintlayer & Sovryn - Andreas Kohl interviewed @Hacker Congress (Prague) - YouTube

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On the first two point, I believe the latest edit to the draft SIP has already addressed both concerns. The development requirement will be discussed with Sovryn developers and planned around their current workload - no development will happen until and unless Sovryn developers endorse our second SIP (not this one) and the bitocracy approves both SIPs.

To answer your third question, we do not see any duplication of value; Mintlayer is an infrastructure-layer project like RSK, and Sovryn is an application-level project; it would not be feasible to implement all of the features enabled by Mintlayer on RSK, nor by doing away with a sidechain altogether.

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We have decided to submit the SIP draft, but moving the fair sale date to the 24th of November, and separating the public sale to a future vote. Please move the conversation to the new main thread here.

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My voting power is delegated. Am I still eligible for the airdrop?

I agree from a non technical usability perspective. I tried various user interfaces of DeFi Chain and there are crucial bugs which makes it unusable. Looking at some of the bug reports, I could tell that this is widespread.

It appears to be at an alpha stage (or earlier) of development and I got the feeling that the coding is very experimental and should not be released. I wonder about the experience of the coders and resources available to them.

I don’t plan to go back for a while (if at all). Wanchain OTOH looks promising and I will use it. Just to experiment with BCH and Litecoin.

Mintlayer has yet to be ported to Sovryn. I think it’s been shafted by the Sovryn team. Wonder why?